Hong Kong tycoon Jimmy Lai tells court he ‘must have discussed’ sanctions with US ex-official Pompeo
Hong Kong Free Press
Jailed media tycoon Jimmy Lai has told a court that he “must have discussed” the issue of imposing sanctions on Hong Kong officials with US ex-secretary of state Mike Pompeo when he met the former official in 2019 amid large-scale pro-democracy protests and unrest.
The 76-year-old has pleaded not guilty to two counts of taking part in a conspiracy to collude with foreign forces under a Beijing-imposed security law and another charge of conspiring to publish “seditious” materials under a colonial-era legislation.
Lai on Wednesday discussed a meeting he had with Pompeo in Washington in July 2019 as Hong Kong was embroiled by protests over a since-axed extradition bill that would have allowed criminal suspects to be transferred to mainland China for trial.
Prosecutors have accused Lai of requesting foreign countries to impose sanctions or blockades, or engaging in other hostile activities against Beijing and Hong Kong in the wake of the unrest.
Lai, who was giving evidence for the fifth day, said he met Pompeo alone.
His lawyer, Steven Kwan, asked Lai whether he has discussed sanctions with Pompeo. “Actually I didn’t mention anything about sanction, if I remember correctly,” Lai responded.
Kwan showed Lai an article published by his newspaper Apple Daily, which has since ceased operations, dated July 25, 2019. According to the article, Lai reportedly told Pompeo that the US should sanction leaders in Hong Kong and China for their clampdown on the protests.
“Wait until they know that the bad things they did have consequences,” the report quoted Lai as saying in an online programme hosted by ex-opposition lawmaker Albert Ho. The prosecution also relied on the article as a piece of incriminating evidence.
After reading the article, Lai changed his answer, saying: “If I said this here, I must have discussed it with Pompeo.”
Lai did not answer Kwan as to whether he remembered the content of his discussion with Pompeo without relying on the article.
“Alright, you have no reason to doubt the accuracy of the report,” said Alex Lee, one of three designated national security judges presiding over the trial. Lai agreed.
‘No need for editorial policies’
On the 97th day of his high-profile trial, Lai also denied giving editorial direction to senior Apple Daily staff members during a series of “lunchbox” meetings.
Ex-Apple Daily publisher Cheung Kim-hung, who earlier testified against Lai after pleading guilty to conspiring to collude with foreign forces, told the court that Lai would comment on current affairs as well as detail his thoughts on the editorial direction of the newspaper during such meetings.
Lai said on Wednesday the meetings would follow pre-determined agendas, adding that there was “no need for any editorial policies” in Apple Daily.
“It so happened that our editorial policy coincided with the core values of Hong Kong people. That’s why we never set down any editorial policy in writing or in words,” he said.
He also denied conspiring with senior Apple Daily figures to publish seditious publications and incite hatred against the authorities.
Apple Daily should not publish “anything seditious,” Lai said, adding, “what they publish should be legal.”
‘Farcical, stupid’
Separately, Lai denied ever saying he wanted to lead the 2019 protests and unrest, dismissing the account provided by defendant-turned-prosecution witness Chan Tsz-wah when he testified.
Chan, an activist linked to international advocacy group “Fight for Freedom, Stand with Hong Kong” (SWHK), previously told the court that Lai expressed concern that radical protesters would dampen global support for the protests and had wished to lead the movement.
“That’s farcical, that’s very stupid,” Lai said in response to Chan’s evidence. “Those young men, they never listened to anybody … Who am I? I would be very crazy to say something like this.”
Lai maintained that he had wanted to “pacify” radical protesters and “calm down” the violence seen in the protests through Chan, who was introduced to him by veteran democrat Martin Lee.
The tycoon also said he was not aware of Chan’s connection with SWHK nor his Chinese name until his trial got underway.
Lai said he was not concerned about the identity of SWHK when the group reached out to him via Simon in June 2019 asking for a HK$5 million bridging loan for an international advertising campaign.
The trial continues on Thursday, with the defence expected to go into the details of Lai’s six meetings with Chan.
When Lai’s trial began on December 18, 2023, he had already spent more than 1,000 days in custody after having had his bail revoked in December 2020. Three judges – handpicked by Hong Kong’s chief executive to hear national security cases – are presiding over Lai’s trial in the place of a jury, marking a departure from the city’s common law traditions.
Beijing inserted national security legislation directly into Hong Kong’s mini-constitution in June 2020 following a year of pro-democracy protests and unrest. It criminalised subversion, secession, collusion with foreign forces and terrorist acts – broadly defined to include disruption to transport and other infrastructure. The move gave police sweeping new powers and led to hundreds of arrests amid new legal precedents, while dozens of civil society groups disappeared. The authorities say it restored stability and peace to the city, rejecting criticism from trade partners, the UN and NGOs.
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